Legislature(1995 - 1996)

03/21/1995 02:08 PM House HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
           HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES                         
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                         March 21, 1995                                        
                           2:08 p.m.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair                                       
 Representative Con Bunde, Co-Chair                                            
 Representative Gary Davis                                                     
 Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                
 Representative Caren Robinson                                                 
 Representative Tom Brice                                                      
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
                                                                               
 Representative Al Vezey                                                       
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 HB 65:     "An Act establishing a loan guarantee and interest rate            
            subsidy program for assistive technology."                         
                                                                               
            PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                            
                                                                               
 * HB 216:  "An Act establishing the Alaska education technology               
            program; and providing for an effective date."                     
                                                                               
            HEARD AND HELD                                                     
                                                                               
 * HB 257:  "An Act relating to student loan programs, interstate              
            compacts for postsecondary education, and fees for                 
            review of postsecondary education institutions; and                
            providing for an effective date."                                  
                                                                               
            PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                            
                                                                               
 (* First public hearing)                                                      
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 DANIELLA LOPER, Administrative Assistant                                      
 Representative Porter's Office                                                
 Room 118, State Capitol                                                       
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4930                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided sponsor statement for HB 65.                    
                                                                               
 EARL CLARK, Staff member                                                      
 Southeast Alaska Independent Living (SAIL)                                    
 9163 Parkwood                                                                 
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 789-9665                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 65.                           
                                                                               
 STAN RIDGEWAY, Director                                                       
 Division of Vocational Rehabilitation                                         
 Department of Education                                                       
 801 W. 10th                                                                   
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-6932                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 65.                           
                                                                               
 JOE SHEARHORN, Officer, Northrim Bank;                                        
 Chair, Alaska Banker's Association                                            
 3111 C Street                                                                 
 Anchorage, AK  99503                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 562-0062                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 65.                           
                                                                               
 JANIE LEASKE, Vice-president, Community Development;                          
 Director, Community Reinvestment Act                                          
 National Bank of Alaska                                                       
 Northern Lights Boulevard & C Street                                          
 Anchorage, AK  99503                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 267-5700                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 65.                           
                                                                               
 ROD MOURANT, Administrative Assistant                                         
 Representative Pete Kott's Office                                             
 Room 432, State Capitol                                                       
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3777                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided sponsor statement for HB 216.                   
                                                                               
 VICKIE KELLY, Representative                                                  
 Craig Schools                                                                 
 P.O. Box 800                                                                  
 Craig, AK  99921                                                              
 Telephone:  (907) 826-3274                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 216.                          
                                                                               
 CHICK BECKLEY, Director of Technology                                         
 Aleutians East Borough School District                                        
 P.O. Box 429                                                                  
 Sand Point, AK  99661-0429                                                    
 Telephone:  (907) 383-5222                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 216.                          
                                                                               
 TESS LANUM, Vice-President                                                    
 North Star Parent-Teacher Association (PTA)                                   
 P.O. Box 3165                                                                 
 Kenai, AK  99611                                                              
 Telephone:  (907) 776-5575                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 216.                          
                                                                               
 SKIP VIA, Teacher and Technology Specialist                                   
 Fairbanks North Star Borough School District                                  
 P.O. Box 25128                                                                
 Ester, AK  99725                                                              
 Telephone:  (907) 479-4934                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 216.                          
                                                                               
 SUE HULL, Representative                                                      
 Alaska PTA                                                                    
 1630 Washington Drive                                                         
 Fairbanks, AK  99709                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 479-5729                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in favor of HB 216.                            
                                                                               
 CAROL MEARES, Legislative Chair                                               
 Fairbanks District Council PTA                                                
 P.O. Box 9                                                                    
 Fairbanks, AK  99725                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 479-3247                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 216.                          
                                                                               
 LARRY WIGET, Director of Government Relations                                 
 Anchorage School District                                                     
 4600 DeBarr Road                                                              
 Anchorage, AK  99510                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 262-2255                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 216.                          
                                                                               
 KAREN JORDAN, Technology Coordinator                                          
 Juneau School District;                                                       
 Representative, Alaska Society for Technology Education                       
 11575 Mendenhall Loop Road                                                    
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 789-1803                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 216.                          
                                                                               
 KATHI GILLESPIE, Representative                                               
 Anchorage School Board                                                        
 2741 Seafarer Loop                                                            
 Anchorage, AK  99516                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 345-5335                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 216.                          
                                                                               
 DR. JOE McCORMICK, Executive Director                                         
 Alaska Commission on Postsecondary Education                                  
 3030 Vintage Boulevard                                                        
 Juneau, AK  99801-7109                                                        
 Telephone:  (907) 465-6740                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 257.                          
                                                                               
 GILLIAN HAYES, Executive Assistant to Dr. McCormick                           
 Alaska Commission on Postsecondary Education                                  
 3030 Vintage Boulevard                                                        
 Juneau, AK  99801-7109                                                        
 Telephone:  (907) 465-6740                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 257.                                     
                                                                               
 JERRY SHRINER, Special Assistant                                              
 Office of the Commissioner                                                    
 Department of Corrections                                                     
 240 Main Street, Suite 700                                                    
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4640                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 257.                                     
                                                                               
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB  65                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGY LOAN GUARANTEES                             
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) PORTER, Davies, Brice, Brown, Mackie,           
 B.Davis, Finkelstein, Kubina, Kott, Elton, Foster, Ivan, Robinson,            
 Nicholia                                                                      
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                      
 01/06/95        37    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                  
 01/16/95        37    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/16/95        38    (H)   L&C, HES, FIN                                     
 01/26/95       147    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): BRICE,BROWN,MACKIE                  
 01/26/95       147    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): B.DAVIS,FINKELSTEIN                 
 01/26/95       147    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): KUBINA                              
 01/27/95       162    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): KOTT, ELTON                         
 01/30/95       180    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): FOSTER, IVAN                        
 02/06/95       256    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): ROBINSON                            
 02/10/95       321    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): NICHOLIA                            
 02/22/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 02/23/95       464    (H)   L&C RPT  4DP                                      
 02/23/95       465    (H)   DP: KOTT,ROKEBERG,SANDERS,MASEK                   
 02/23/95       465    (H)   FISCAL NOTE (DOE)                                 
 03/09/95       690    (H)   SPONSOR: PORTER                                   
 03/09/95       690    (H)   FIRST COSPONSOR: DAVIES                           
 03/21/95              (H)   HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106                       
                                                                              
 BILL:  HB 216                                                                
 SHORT TITLE: EDUCATION TECHNOLOGY PROGRAM                                     
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KOTT,Brown                                      
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                      
 03/01/95       530    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 03/01/95       531    (H)   HES, FINANCE                                      
 03/21/95              (H)   HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106                       
                                                                              
 BILL:  HB 257                                                                
 SHORT TITLE: POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION PROGRAMS/LOANS                           
 SPONSOR(S): HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES                               
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                      
 03/15/95       742    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 03/15/95       742    (H)   HES, FINANCE                                      
 03/21/95              (H)   HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106                       
                                                                               
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-24, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR CON BUNDE called the meeting of the House Health,                    
 Education and Social Services standing committee to order at 2:08             
 p.m.  Present at the call to order were Representatives Bunde,                
 Toohey, Davis and Rokeberg.  A quorum was present to conduct                  
 business.  The day's calendar was read.  Representative Brice                 
 joined the meeting at 2:09 p.m.                                               
                                                                               
 HHES - 03/21/95                                                               
 HB 65 -  ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGY LOAN GUARANTEES                               
                                                                               
 Number 050                                                                    
                                                                               
 DANIELLA LOPER, Administrative Assistant for bill sponsor                     
 Representative Brian Porter, presented the sponsor statement on his           
 behalf.  She said HB 65 is a bill that will help people with                  
 disabilities.  It refers to people with disabilities, not people              
 who are on Medicaid or Medicare, and not very wealthy people with             
 disabilities.  Of those, it affects those who want to work.                   
 Therefore, the bill will affect about 60 percent of the people with           
 disabilities in this state.  Those are people who need assistive              
 technology in order to work.                                                  
                                                                               
 MS. LOPER explained the program creates a tie between the banks and           
 people with disabilities.  A communication is established whereby             
 a person with a disability can go to the bank and apply for a loan.           
 This person is usually in the middle-class socioeconomic range,               
 although they may not necessarily have enough money to guarantee              
 the loan.  Therefore, the person would go to the Division of                  
 Vocational Rehabilitation (DVR) and explain they are applying for             
 a loan for, for example, a lift that can be attached to a car.                
                                                                               
 MS. LOPER continued that the person with a disability will explain            
 to the DVR that they can pay off the loan, but they need a                    
 guarantee.  The DVR would, therefore, guarantee 90 percent of the             
 loan.                                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 210                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. LOPER said a study was conducted in 1993 and the default rate             
 was found to be 5.2 percent on this type of loan.  That is about              
 the best rate possible.  The banking association also is                      
 complimented by this bill because banks have to meet the provisions           
 of the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA).  Banks must reinvest into            
 the community.  Each bank is rated on that.                                   
                                                                               
 MS. LOPER said therefore, HB 65 helps the banks and people with               
 disabilities who want to work.  She had various people waiting to             
 testify on the attributes of this bill.                                       
                                                                               
 Number 319                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked if Ms. Loper wanted HESS Committee members to            
 entertain the amendments to the bill so there would be a complete             
 working document.  He numbered the amendments.                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE moved amendment number one.                          
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE objected for discussion purposes.                              
                                                                               
 MS. LOPER explained that amendment one contains the wording for the           
 descriptive term used for people with disabilities.  "Handicapped             
 people" and "handicapped individuals" are terms that are outdated             
 and offensive.  The term that is used today and is supported by the           
 Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) is "a person with a                     
 disability."  It is important that the word "person" is used before           
 the word "disability."                                                        
                                                                               
 MS. LOPER said the amendment has changed the verbiage in the bill             
 to reflect those terms.                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 412                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR CYNTHIA TOOHEY asked if she was saying that on page 1,               
 line 13, after the word "enabling," on line 14, item (1), the words           
 "handicapped individual" will be replaced with "a person with a               
 disability."                                                                  
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG inquired about page 2, line 30.  He            
 said the word "handicapped" is used to describe a disability.                 
                                                                               
 MS. LOPER said the reason is because by statute, that must be done            
 in order to comply with the statute.  An entire chapter would have            
 to be changed in the statutes.                                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if a particular title or chapter in             
 the Alaska State Statutes was being referred to.                              
                                                                               
 MS. LOPER said a particular title was not being referred to, but              
 there are other words and sections in the statute books that use              
 the word "handicapped."  Therefore, in order to reflect the change            
 in this particular bill, a definition had to be given.                        
                                                                               
 Number 490                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG expressed surprise that the word                      
 "handicapped" even exists in the body of statutes at this late                
 date.                                                                         
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said perhaps political correctness is late coming to           
 Alaska.                                                                       
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said there is a wording problem.  On page 1, line             
 14, the amendment deletes what has just been added.  She said that            
 on line 14, the words "handicapped individual" are being replaced             
 with "a person with a disability...to obtain or maintain                      
 employment."                                                                  
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the sentence on line 13 will continue to read,            
 "best suited for a person with a disability to (1) a person with a            
 disability to obtain or maintain employment."                                 
                                                                               
 Number 567                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked if that was a redundancy that was                  
 necessary in statute.                                                         
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said perhaps it would be changed in the                       
 regulations.                                                                  
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said the words are being stated in Section               
 (b), but then to go under subsection (1), it sounds redundant.                
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said "appropriate assistive technology that is best            
 suited for (1) a person with a disability."  Co-Chair Bunde read              
 the whole section:  "(b) Subject to (c) and (d) of this section,              
 the agency may use money in the fund established under this section           
 to guarantee 90 percent of the principal amount of a loan or to               
 subsidize the interest rate of a loan guaranteed by the agency for            
 appropriate assistive technology that is best suited for..."  Co-             
 Chair Bunde now added "a person with a disability."                           
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said while it sounds redundant, if the whole section           
 is read, it is appropriate.                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said it still sounds redundant when one                  
 continues to read.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 664                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said the term of art in the disabled                  
 community is a "disabled person."  However, in this bill the term             
 "person with a disability" is used.  He asked if the bill was                 
 attempting to form a word of art for statutory language.                      
                                                                               
 MS. LOPER said the term of art, and even the term used through the            
 ADA is "a person with a disability."                                          
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said "disabled person" is proper                      
 terminology.                                                                  
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said there is a semantic problem.  "Disabled person"           
 has connotations that "person with a disability" does not have.               
 The person has a disability, as opposed to the entire person being            
 described as "disabled."  It is putting a very fine point on the              
 term.                                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 720                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he is familiar with dealing with these           
 issues as the former chairman of the ADA Commission in Anchorage              
 for three years.  There is no stigma in being a disabled person.              
 There is about a "handicapped person," and that is the issue here.            
 He was simply wondering if there was a reason for all this, because           
 he can see that the language changes would be more economic if they           
 were done differently.  However, he would not belabor the point.              
                                                                               
 MS. LOPER said in the committee packet, there is a letter from the            
 Disability Law Center of Alaska.  Both this letter and the director           
 of the DVR said the term "disabled person" was never to be used               
 again.  The desired term is "person with a disability."                       
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked if the committee felt the amendment as                   
 proposed was redundant.                                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said the committee was comfortable with the              
 amendment, and expressed the desire to move on.                               
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE removed his objection to the movement of amendment             
 one.  It was therefore passed.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 813                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE moved amendment two, and Co-Chair Bunde                  
 objected for discussion purposes.                                             
                                                                               
 MS. LOPER said she was reviewing the legislation and found a                  
 loophole on page 2, line 6.  This is the part of the bill regarding           
 who is able to receive the loan.  Page 2, line 5, says, "the loan             
 is made to a person with a disability or a member of the person's             
 family."  Ms. Loper felt that may be a loophole.  Therefore, she              
 worked with Legislative Legal to close that loophole to make sure             
 that if a child needs a parent to drive them somewhere and                    
 assistive technology is needed, the parent can receive the loan.              
                                                                               
 MS. LOPER said the amendment inserts, "to obtain assistive                    
 technology for the handicapped or disabled person within the                  
 limitations of (b) of this section."  She was wary of the bill                
 saying that a member of the person's family could receive a loan.             
 She feared it would be a 16-year-old boy getting loans for a new              
 car instead of for his grandmother's assistive technology.                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the word "handicapped" is used in the section             
 just discussed.                                                               
                                                                               
 MS. LOPER said that will be changed to reflect the passage of                 
 amendment one.                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 914                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE removed his objection, and amendment two passed.               
 Before the HESS Committee was a Committee Substitute (CS) for HB
 65.                                                                           
                                                                               
 EARL CLARK, Staff member, Southeast Alaska Independent Living                 
 (SAIL), and former client of Vocational Rehabilitation, spoke in              
 support of HB 65 for very personal reasons.  After Mr. Clark left             
 the university, he thought it would be relatively easy for him to             
 get a job.  He found out the real world is more cruel than the                
 university.  He found it was very difficult to get a position, and            
 he felt it was because of his disability.                                     
                                                                               
 MR. CLARK said after three years he went to the DVR.  He was                  
 assessed and it was determined that a piece of assistive technology           
 and training in that technology would be very helpful.  This                  
 technology was a computer and it was determined that he needed                
 skills in this area.  The DVR bought Mr. Clark a computer, he was             
 trained in the use of that computer, and he was subsequently                  
 successful in obtaining a job.                                                
                                                                               
 MR. CLARK thought his experience in using assistive technology                
 through the DVR probably changed his life.  Assistive technology              
 was there for him when he really needed help.  It has been very               
 valuable for him.                                                             
                                                                               
 Number 1060                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. CLARK thinks HB 65 is a bill that is concerned with loans.  It            
 is not a handout.  It is for people who can work and perhaps need             
 assistive technology to work--to get a job or to continue working.            
 This bill will be very helpful to people who are disabled.  He                
 asked that the committee pass the bill.                                       
                                                                               
 MR. CLARK added he is familiar with semantics and the nature of               
 language due to his previous position.  There is a disabled person,           
 meaning the total person, and a person with a disability.  One                
 could have a disability that is a very small part of the person.              
 However, a disabled person implies that the total person is                   
 disabled.                                                                     
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said a disabled car and a car with a disability are           
 two different things.                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1154                                                                   
                                                                               
 STAN RIDGEWAY, Deputy Director, Division of Vocational                        
 Rehabilitation, said the assistive technology loan program would be           
 funded strictly by federal funds.  No state general funds would be            
 used to capitalize the loan fund.  There are roughly 4,000                    
 individuals with disabilities in the state who could benefit from             
 these types of loans.  Fifty-eight percent of people who are                  
 employed who need technology cannot get it because they need a loan           
 to get technology.                                                            
                                                                               
 MR. RIDGEWAY said of these people, many people who are experiencing           
 new disabilities are pretty much tapped out.  If they go to a bank            
 to apply for a loan, they are usually turned down.  Therefore, in             
 cooperation with the banking institutions, this legislation would             
 allow banks to loan money to people who would otherwise qualify               
 except for the fact that they have no money.                                  
                                                                               
 MR. RIDGEWAY said the interest rate could be bought down, or the              
 loan can be guaranteed up to 90 percent.  The funding would come              
 over the next three or four years at $100,000 per year through the            
 federal technology grant program.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 1226                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY noted there is a $5,000 cap on the loan.  She asked           
 who is going to approve the loans.                                            
                                                                               
 MR. RIDGEWAY said he envisions the program working in the following           
 way.  A person would go to bank.  This would usually be a person              
 who is working with an independent living center or another state             
 agency.  If there were no other way for a person to get assistive             
 technology through another source, then he or she would apply for             
 a loan.  The person would then be directed to any financial                   
 institution.  They would go through the loan process and apply for            
 a loan.  If the bank would approve the loan, it would then contact            
 the DVR office.  The office would keep a running total of the                 
 amount and the guarantee.                                                     
                                                                               
 MR. RIDGEWAY said the loan would then be applied to the guarantee,            
 and the bank could make the loan.  If there were a circumstance               
 where the loan could not quite be paid back because of the interest           
 rate, the office could then do an interest buy-down.                          
                                                                               
 Number 1286                                                                   
                                                                               
 JOE SHEARHORN, representative, Alaska Banker's Association (ABA),             
 testified via teleconference that the ABA would be in favor of this           
 legislation because it would help banks make loans to people who              
 need this type of lending facility.  The ABA does feel the 90                 
 percent guarantee would be important in this case.                            
                                                                               
 MR. SHEARHORN added that the ABA is available to help draft                   
 regulation for the implementation of this legislation if necessary.           
 The ABA and representative banks have a lot of experience working             
 with similar loan guarantee programs such as the Small Business               
 Administration Loan Guarantee Program, which is a very active                 
 program in Alaska.  Any extent the regulations for this legislation           
 could be patterned after this type of loan guarantee program would            
 be helpful in that the system for the Small Business Administration           
 Loan Guarantee program is already in place and working.                       
                                                                               
 Number 1359                                                                   
                                                                               
 JANIE LEASKE, Vice-president of Community Development and Community           
 Reinvestment Act Officer, National Bank of Alaska, testified via              
 teleconference on behalf of the Executive Vice President of the               
 National Bank of Alaska.  She provided some of the background                 
 information on the CRA.  This is federal legislation passed in the            
 late 1970s that encourages financial institutions to meet the                 
 credit needs of their communities with special emphasis on low and            
 moderate income individuals in communities.                                   
                                                                               
 MS. LEASKE said this federal legislation pertains to banks but not            
 credit unions.  On behalf of the National Bank of Alaska, Ms.                 
 Leaske voiced support of HB 65.  It is her understanding that                 
 similar programs have already been implemented in 42 other states.            
 In a brief review of the materials provided by the DVR and the                
 Department of Education (DOE), a 1991 study estimated that there              
 were about 20,000 persons with disabilities in Alaska.                        
                                                                               
 MS. LEASKE continued that of this number, as Mr. Ridgeway                     
 previously discussed, about 3,500 would meet the loan criteria in             
 Anchorage and Southeast Alaska.  An additional 800 reside in rural            
 communities.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1435                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. LEASKE said lending representatives from her bank have reviewed           
 the draft legislation summary and the material provided by the DVR            
 and DOE, and feel that the legislation fills an unmet need.  She              
 volunteered her organization's assistance to HESS Committee members           
 for the passage and successful implementation of this program.  Her           
 bank has a network of 51 branches serving 28 communities, and it              
 has an existing system to assist in public funding and programs in            
 the rural areas of the state which are often more difficult to                
 reach.                                                                        
                                                                               
 MS. LEASKE offered her assistance to HESS Committee members in                
 reaching other financial institutions as well.  In the Anchorage              
 area, the National Bank of Alaska has established an informal CRA             
 officers group composed of representatives of the six local banks.            
 These are Bank of America, First Interstate, First National, Key              
 Bank, Northrim and National Bank of Alaska.  Several of those banks           
 have branches across the state, and Ms. Leaske would be happy to              
 coordinate a meeting to help draft regulations once the legislation           
 is enacted.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1484                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said he would pass her offer to volunteer on to Mr.            
 Ridgeway, who may be intimately involved in the drafting of                   
 regulations to this effect.                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS said he was approached by a person with             
 a disability this summer.  She was concerned about insurance to               
 make repairs on a wheelchair.  Representative Davis said apparently           
 there is not much of a problem obtaining insurance for this type of           
 equipment.  He asked if there were any protections available to               
 persons with disabilities from people peddling poor assistive                 
 technology.                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. RIDGEWAY said he is not aware of any such protections.                    
 However, there are a series of independent living centers                     
 throughout the state, and there is a lot of assistance for people             
 with disabilities to insure they are receiving quality equipment.             
 If the persons with disabilities are aware that programs are in               
 place to help them, some of those problems may be alleviated.                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said he wanted to bring that up in case it was           
 a problem.  From the research he has done, however, it does not               
 seem to be a large problem.  He thought if it was a problem,                  
 perhaps it was something that should be addressed.                            
                                                                               
 Number 1587                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said there was a "lemon law" for liability for                
 assistive technology.  She thinks there is some kind of list of the           
 better equipment.  If someone has a defective piece of equipment,             
 they can get their money back.                                                
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE assumed that one of the goals for the centers for              
 independent living is to help people buy appropriate assistance.              
 He closed public testimony.                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE moved CSHB 65 with individual recommendations            
 and accompanying fiscal notes.  There were no objections, and the             
 bill was passed from the HESS Committee to the next committee of              
 referral.                                                                     
                                                                               
 HHES - 03/21/95                                                               
 HB 216 - ESTABLISHING ALASKA EDUCATION TECHNOLOGY PROGRAM                   
                                                                               
 Number 1645                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said this is the first time this bill is being                 
 heard, therefore it is not the intent of the chair to move the bill           
 today.  Testimony will be taken.                                              
                                                                               
 ROD MOURANT, Administrative Assistant for Representative Pete Kott,           
 provided the sponsor statement on the representative's behalf.  HB
 216 establishes the Alaska Education Technology Program in the                
 state of Alaska.  This is not a new concept to the state                      
 legislature.  In previous years there have been similar pieces of             
 legislation introduced for this purpose.  The major difference                
 between this bill and previous legislation to that effect is that             
 this bill seeks to eliminate most of the bureaucracy that was                 
 present and required through the review and qualifying process used           
 in previous bills dealing with this topic.                                    
                                                                               
 MR. MOURANT said education technology is very important to the                
 students and the general public in Alaska.  Every day in the                  
 Capitol Building and every day in the lives of the legislators they           
 experience such technology.  Mr. Mourant is certain that many                 
 members of the HESS Committee have Personal Computers (PCs) at                
 home.  They may spend time on the various computer networks that              
 are available worldwide, and on the Internet as well.  These                  
 systems can be used to share information and retrieve valuable                
 knowledge.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1746                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. MOURANT continued that HB 216 establishes the criteria for the            
 education technology fund, and then, in Section 2, requires that              
 performance of programs granted money under this program are part             
 of the annual report card on education in the state of Alaska.                
                                                                               
 MR. MOURANT said Section 3 defines the legislation and lays out the           
 process, the criteria and the information that must be contained in           
 the grant application package that is submitted to the DOE.  This             
 is a matching grant program.  Besides public schools in Alaska,               
 public libraries are also eligible for grants under this program.             
                                                                               
 Number 1783                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. MOURANT said the program will be funded through the earnings of           
 an education technology fund.  Representative Kott plans on                   
 introducing an appropriation for the bill to create an education              
 technology fund.  The earnings of that fund will be available as              
 grant money on an ongoing basis.  It will be an ongoing source of             
 funding for schools and for public libraries to use in their                  
 pursuit of higher technology.                                                 
                                                                               
 MR. MOURANT has contacted the Department of Revenue (DOR), Treasury           
 Division.  This division manages the investment for such a fund.              
 Based on the information from the Chief Investment Officer, it is             
 reasonable to project that if the principal of the fund is $10                
 million, the anticipated earnings based on projections for the next           
 five years would range between $750,000 and $900,000 per fiscal               
 year for a $10 million endowment.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 1843                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. MOURANT said a fiscal note from the DOR was included in the               
 bill packet.  That is for $16,500 to manage the fund.  That is the            
 standard small fund management fee that the Treasury Division                 
 receives to manage a small fund that is part of the general fund in           
 an investment portfolio.  Also in the packet is a zero fiscal note            
 from the Department of Administration which will be affected only             
 because of access through various networks through their system.              
                                                                               
 MR. MOURANT continued that there are two fiscal notes from the DOE            
 in the bill packet.  The first note is from Education Program                 
 Support, Basis Education and Instructional Improvement Unit to fund           
 a position to review the grant applications received from around              
 the state and to make certain all the elements of the grant                   
 application are present.  HB 216 does spell out what the grant                
 application must consist of.  DOE will make sure all the required             
 elements are present.                                                         
                                                                               
 MR. MOURANT said a fiscal note is also included from State Library            
 Operations.  It rightly anticipates that public libraries around              
 the state will see an opportunity to upgrade their services to the            
 general public through this program.  Mr. Mourant has spoken                  
 several times with the DOE and his office will continue to work               
 with the DOE on the fiscal notes and the role of the department.              
                                                                               
 Number 1910                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. MOURANT said Representative Kott, after looking at the fiscal             
 note from State Library Operations, thought it made an excellent              
 grant application for the program once it is adopted because it               
 will serve a very useful and important role in the process.                   
                                                                               
 MR. MOURANT wanted to show HESS Committee members a document which            
 indicated the matching fund requirements for communities.  These              
 are based on full-value average daily membership (ADM)-type                   
 calculations.  In that regard, Anchorage and Juneau would be in a             
 30 percent match scenario.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1940                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked if there would be any entities that would have           
 zero matching funds.                                                          
                                                                               
 MR. MOURANT said no.  He said although the rates may vary, he                 
 calculated that Galena, Hoonah, Hydaburg, Kake and Nenana will all            
 be at 5 percent.                                                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE CAREN ROBINSON said she supports this program, but             
 she is a little skeptical because currently on the books is a                 
 Children's Trust Fund that is nothing without anything in the                 
 trust.  She asked if another appropriation bill was going to be               
 introduced that would request $10 million for the Education                   
 Technology Program.                                                           
                                                                               
 MR. MOURANT said that HB 216 is not an appropriations bill.  There            
 will be an appropriation introduced that is either a stand-alone              
 bill or it will be introduced through another mechanism available             
 for appropriation.  Mr. Mourant said Representative Kott has not              
 finalized his decision on the size of the appropriation.  It will             
 be as large as $20 million, but all calculations have been based on           
 a $10 million figure.                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 2002                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON also asked how this will work for the                 
 department if the appropriation does not get through to put money             
 into the endowment fund.  If this bill was to pass, would the DOE             
 get the money to set up a program that will not happen?                       
                                                                               
 MR. MOURANT answered that if the appropriations bill did not                  
 happen, he would see no reason for the department to conduct an               
 unfunded program.  He thought the legislature, as they deal with              
 appropriations bills, would not fund the fiscal notes if they did             
 not fund the fund.  That would eliminate the problem for the                  
 department.                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said HESS Committee members would study HB 216 until           
 it sees the appropriation bill to have a better idea of the                   
 results.  The HESS Committee would like to make sure it is not                
 simply doing a paperwork exercise.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 2042                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON reiterated that she thinks this is a                  
 wonderful program, and she would love to see it set up.  She would            
 also love to see the Children's Trust Fund funded.  However, when             
 the legislature is seeking to cut education to the level it is, and           
 the Governor has requested $18 million to improve Alaska's                    
 education system, it is difficult to support this kind of action at           
 this time.                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE shared her concerns.  He said he would love to be              
 able to fund an education trust, period.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 2070                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said on page 5, concerning the ADM,                   
 participating share, there is a big gap between the 30 percent and            
 the 5 percent. Representative Rokeberg asked if that was                      
 intentionally done in order to assist bush areas.                             
                                                                               
 MR. MOURANT said that is not the concept in mind.  Actually, little           
 consideration was given to altering the percentage allocations                
 based on ADMs that were in previous legislation.  If the committee            
 in its wisdom chose to change those percentage allocations, Mr.               
 Mourant suspects the bill's sponsor would have no objections.                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG suggested that those provisions be studied            
 before the bill is returned before the committee.  It seems like a            
 large gap.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 2110                                                                   
                                                                               
 VICKIE KELLY, Representative, Craig Schools, testified via                    
 teleconference that the parents and community in Craig have made a            
 strong commitment to providing technology for Craig's children.               
 Over the past five years, the school board has supported the                  
 addition of technology in the educational program at Craig schools.           
 The role of technology in the lives of Alaska's children is an                
 essential part of their development to be contributing members of             
 society, both now and even more so in the future.                             
                                                                               
 MS. KELLY said all children from preschool through college are                
 using technology to assist in their educational endeavors.                    
 Technology is playing a very vital role in providing educational              
 opportunities in rural Alaska that would not otherwise be                     
 available.  Through technology such as video conferencing and on-             
 line communication the people of Craig are able to provide a link             
 for their students to communicate and experience some of the                  
 diversity not only of Alaska but with the rest of the world.                  
                                                                               
 MS. KELLY continued that these are experiences and knowledge that             
 are vital to the success of Alaska's children.  She strongly                  
 supports HB 216 regarding technology and education in Alaska                  
 schools and urged the committee's support as well.                            
                                                                               
 Number 2159                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHICK BECKLEY, Director of Technology, Aleutians East Borough                 
 School District, testified via teleconference from Cold Bay.  He              
 supported HB 216.  To him, this bill is more than just an                     
 educational issue.  He sees the bill as something that benefits all           
 Alaskan communities because the infrastructure that is developed              
 through these tools will benefit every community.  Most schools are           
 used as community centers, and the schools are a logical focus for            
 technology development.  Therefore, when this sort of technological           
 effort is coordinated, the entire state benefits, not just the                
 educational community.                                                        
                                                                               
 MR. BECKLEY continued by saying that as early as 1981, technology             
 was an entity in education.  Alaska led the nation in the                     
 implementation of educational technology.  Alaska seems to have               
 dropped that ball in the last few years as the state has taken its            
 eye off the vision.  In this current atmosphere where it seems                
 fashionable to see government as the enemy of the public, Mr.                 
 Beckley suggested there are projects and visions that cannot move             
 forward without the support of government.  This is one of those              
 initiatives and efforts.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 2227                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BECKLEY added the superintendent of Fairbanks North Star                  
 Borough has noted how different Alaska has been since the building            
 of the Alaska Highway in 1942.  This ended the isolation                      
 experienced by many rural areas and Alaska in general.  Mr. Beckley           
 suggested that the same challenge is being faced today in the realm           
 of technology.  Many states around the country are taking state               
 initiatives to build these infrastructures.                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BECKLEY said Alaska also needs to lead in this regard.                    
 Individual districts or regional efforts, while well-meaning and              
 well-directed, oftentimes send conflicting messages to                        
 telecommunications providers.  Efforts are duplicated, and                    
 resources are not as effectively used as they would be if efforts             
 were coordinated in a bill of this sort.                                      
                                                                               
 MR. BECKLEY said today, Alaska faces heavy challenges.  Mr. Beckley           
 welcomes looking toward the legislature and the Governor of Alaska            
 and responding favorably to them.  Mr. Beckley thanked HESS                   
 Committee members for the opportunity to speak.                               
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-24, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 024                                                                    
                                                                               
 TESS LANUM, Vice-President, North Star PTA, testified via                     
 teleconference that she is a parent concerned with the quality of             
 education for children in Alaska.  She voiced support for HB 216.             
 The benefits of an educational technology program in Alaska would             
 be tremendous.  She has seen evidence of the benefits that                    
 technology can bring in her school at North Star.                             
                                                                               
 MS. LANUM said North Star is part of the reduced site class grant             
 which has been received, and it has enabled her school to implement           
 its own technology plan.  The school has integrated technology as             
 a learning tool, and she has already seen a significant impact on             
 student learning.  Ms. Lanum also extended an invitation to the               
 committee to visit her school and see first-hand the benefits of              
 technology in the classroom.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 123                                                                    
                                                                               
 SKIP VIA, Teacher and Technology Specialist, Fairbanks North Star             
 Borough School District, testified via teleconference.  He thanked            
 Representatives Kott and Brown for sponsoring this much needed                
 legislation.  He said the need for this bill has been very                    
 eloquently outlined in the findings and purpose of the bill.  He              
 asked HESS Committee members to pay attention to that section of              
 the bill.                                                                     
                                                                               
 MR. VIA thought the ability to access information resources on                
 worldwide networks is one of the most powerful delineators between            
 the "haves" and the "have-nots" in the information society.  This             
 bill speaks well for the need to develop equity in schools and to             
 bring all schools up to a standard that will allow children and               
 teachers to understand and utilize technology effectively as a part           
 of everything in the learning process.                                        
                                                                               
 Number 193                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. VIA concluded by hoping HESS Committee members will consider at           
 some point how this bill is to be funded.  It sounds to Mr. Via               
 like it is going to be funded through an endowment, and the                   
 endowment's earnings will be used to fund the program.  Mr. Via               
 suggested that a different premise be considered as a mechanism in            
 which an amount is put in every year for five years.  He suggested            
 $10 million a year for five years be given to establish a fund that           
 would pay directly to school districts to implement the programs              
 that are outlined in this bill.                                               
                                                                               
 MR. VIA fully supports this legislation and the principle behind              
 it.                                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 272                                                                    
                                                                               
 SUE HULL, representative of the Alaska PTA, testified via                     
 teleconference from Fairbanks that technology has been one of the             
 top five priorities of her district for at least three years.                 
 Parents across the state are concerned about technology.                      
 Conversations that have taken place at conventions or conferences             
 have indicated this.                                                          
                                                                               
 MS. HULL continued that from a parent's perspective, technology has           
 become, in many ways, the new inequality in schools.  There are               
 schools in which students have access to the kind of training that            
 will open doors for them in the future.  Children in schools where            
 that opportunity is not available actually may have the hardware              
 and equipment, but do not have the access to the kind of training             
 for teachers that would enable them to take advantage of it.                  
                                                                               
 MS. HULL said the Alaska PTA is very interested in proposals such             
 as HB 216.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 325                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. HULL wanted to make two points.  This is a crucial investment             
 for the future.  She reiterated previous testimony and said                   
 technology is the way to level the playing field geographically for           
 Alaska and will enable Alaska to participate in the future.                   
 Technology is very important for students to prepare for the                  
 future.                                                                       
                                                                               
 MS. HULL'S son is in the seventh grade.  As they were waiting to              
 testify, she and her son talked about the difference between                  
 students who come from schools where there is a technology program            
 that enables students to get proficient in the skills for using the           
 Internet, for example; and her son who came from a different school           
 where computers were available but teachers are not trained well              
 enough to use them.  Now that her son is in the middle school, it             
 may be awhile before he gets access to that kind of training.                 
                                                                               
 MS. HULL said that kind of training is not really available at her            
 son's middle school and high school.  This is a problem, and she              
 discussed the need for some kind of summer camp or something.  Even           
 that is still only a program that would be available for a small              
 portion of the population.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 413                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. HULL'S second point was that this inequality is something the             
 state cannot turn its back on.  Great care must be taken to                   
 administer the funds for this program.  She cannot tell from                  
 reading the bill exactly who would be making the decisions to                 
 determine which grants will be funded.  She cannot tell whether the           
 department will make the decisions or the legislature.                        
                                                                               
 MS. HULL thought it is important to look at those determinations              
 and to be sure decisions are removed to the greatest degree                   
 possible from political considerations.  She also suggested                   
 prioritizing grants so they will be given to those most needy.                
                                                                               
 MS. HULL said this sends a clear message that this is something               
 that is important to Alaska in terms of preparing students to face            
 the future.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 470                                                                    
                                                                               
 CAROL MEARES, Legislative Chair, Fairbanks District Council PTA,              
 said Alaska is in need of a comprehensive technology bill that will           
 enhance technology training statewide and provide the equipment               
 necessary to get the job done.  The state needs to look at four               
 areas of support in order for technology education to be successful           
 in Alaska resulting in business employment opportunities.                     
                                                                               
 MS. MEARES said first, a statewide network infrastructure must be             
 developed.  Computers are no longer just for word processing and              
 spreadsheets.  They must be hooked up to other computers for two-             
 way communication and information exchange.  Second, adequate                 
 equipment in schools must be provided to connect to this                      
 infrastructure so Alaskan children can keep up with the ever-                 
 changing world.                                                               
                                                                               
 MS. MEARES said there are some very exciting exchanges going on in            
 some of the Fairbanks Elementary Schools between students and other           
 networks worldwide.  Expanding opportunities need to be available             
 to students statewide.  Ms. Meares would like to see the                      
 distribution of funds stay out of the legislative arena, like has             
 been said previously, and placed under the authority of the DOE.              
 Ms. Meares does not think money should be appropriated the way it             
 is done with the education capital projects where projects are                
 funded according to names on a list.                                          
                                                                               
 MS. MEARES said instead, the opportunity for grants must be made              
 available for more schools.  Some sort of grant program would                 
 distribute the money more equitably.                                          
                                                                               
 Number 556                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. MEARES spoke on her third point.  She felt adequate staff                 
 training was needed for the technology education program.  This is            
 crucial to the success of this program.  A school could have all              
 the computers it could ever want, but if teachers do not know how             
 to use the computers, they will not use them and neither will the             
 students.  Staff training will ensure that the equipment does not             
 sit in the corner.                                                            
                                                                               
 MS. MEARES continued with her fourth point.  She said significant             
 resources are needed to make all these plans happen.  She suggested           
 a considerable sum of money be allocated over the next five years.            
 She asked HESS Committee members to consider that the goal is to              
 provide equal access statewide.                                               
                                                                               
 MS. MEARES said Alaska has a unique opportunity.  Considering the             
 possibilities, technology hooked into a statewide network                     
 infrastructure could provide endless business and employment                  
 opportunities for the rural and urban populations.  No longer will            
 a person need to live close to a business to be employed by that              
 business.  Instead, there is a potential for a new Alaskan cottage            
 industry.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 600                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. MEARES said the state needs to provide adequate computer access           
 to students of all ages.  Her experience has been that children               
 have had excellent opportunities for technology education at the              
 elementary level, but it diminishes at the secondary level.  This             
 is partially due to the lack of adequate equipment, and partially             
 due to the inadequate equipment of the staff to the program mainly            
 due to lack of training.                                                      
                                                                               
 MS. MEARES said she is not a "tekkie," (technological whiz)                   
 herself, but she can see the writing on the wall.  To compete in              
 the advancing world, children must be computer literate.  The                 
 comprehensive technology education bill will help Alaska achieve              
 this goal of computer literacy for all Alaskan students.                      
                                                                               
 Number 640                                                                    
                                                                               
 LARRY WIGET, Director of Government Relations, Anchorage School               
 District, testified via teleconference that he is also the former             
 supervisor of Instructional Technology.  When he first came to the            
 district, he was responsible for the Library Media program.  The              
 Anchorage School District (ASD) does support the establishment of             
 the Alaska Education Technology program and urges the passage of HB
 216.                                                                          
                                                                               
 MR. WIGET said increased awareness by teachers, students and                  
 parents is creating a demand and a need in schools for access and             
 training in the use of educational technology.  Furthermore,                  
 students are growing up in an information age that is rapidly                 
 becoming the communications age.  The Global Information Highway              
 and the skills to communicate over it, as well as access to the               
 rich store of information on it must be available to Alaskan                  
 students.  This is being done in other states, but unfortunately,             
 it is not being seen as necessary in such a vastly diverse and                
 rural area such as Alaska.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 708                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. WIGET said the technology available to students in the ASD and            
 probably other districts around the state as well is inadequate and           
 outdated.  The majority of ASD students are not being trained and             
 do not have access to technology they will encounter when they                
 enter the work force or higher education.                                     
                                                                               
 MR. WIGET said the district budget cannot provide adequate funds to           
 meet existing or future district instructional technology needs or            
 eliminate the present inequity among schools in providing access to           
 technology, information resources and communication.  In fact, the            
 entire district level instructional technology budget for the ASD's           
 47,609 students is only $13,000 next year.                                    
                                                                               
 MR. WIGET said instructional technology is a priority of the                  
 district.  The ASD had a technology committee which was in the                
 process of developing a comprehensive district-wide technology                
 plan.  However, given the costs of technology and the constraints             
 of the budget, the ASD, as well as other districts and libraries              
 around the state, are unable to fund instructional technology.                
                                                                               
 Number 760                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. WIGET continued that proposed legislation will establish a                
 technology endowment fund.  It will not meet all technology needs,            
 but it will raise the foundation for future monies to be set aside            
 for technology needs statewide.  It recognizes the importance of              
 technology to the future of Alaska.  It also recognizes the need              
 for planning, and the need for local commitment to technology by              
 requiring a matching grant.  It is a starting point in meeting the            
 instructional and communication technology needs for all Alaskans.            
 He urged HESS Committee members to pass HB 216.                               
                                                                               
 Number 796                                                                    
                                                                               
 KAREN JORDAN, Technology Coordinator, Juneau School District, said            
 she was representing the Alaska Society for Technology Education.             
 This is a 500-plus member organization throughout the state                   
 consisting of educators, many of whom have testified today.  These            
 people are interested in seeing that Alaska is not left behind as             
 technology is implemented across the country and throughout the               
 world.                                                                        
                                                                               
 MS. JORDAN said she is not going to reiterate why technology is               
 important for children.  Much testimony has already been given on             
 that topic.  It is important, and the state must figure out a way             
 to implement it.                                                              
                                                                               
 MS. JORDAN had a few points she wanted to make.  But first,                   
 however, she wanted to provide HESS Committee members with some               
 background.  The Juneau School District (JSD), a year and a half              
 ago, did pass a bond initiative of almost $2 million to fund                  
 technology in Juneau's schools.  This provided a system, it                   
 provided equity, and compatibility.  In the past, in the 1980s, one           
 computer could be bought at a time with "hot dog sales" or some               
 other type of fund raiser.  This computer was then put into a                 
 classroom and it was a wonderful addition.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 875                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. JORDAN said now, computers are used to connect to an                      
 infrastructure, and to connect to a network system where people can           
 communicate and compete worldwide.  This is where community members           
 can have access to this type of technology.  Things are on a much             
 larger scale.  There is definitely a need for a coordinated effort            
 throughout the state.                                                         
                                                                               
 MS. JORDAN said people do not like bureaucracy, but they do like              
 coordination.  In this particular effort, it is important that                
 there is some type of coordination.  This bill does address all of            
 those considerations.  It addresses the need for the DOE to set up            
 grants and collect them and make sure everything is in place.  The            
 fiscal notes probably support some coordinated technical oversight.           
 The bill does support some training efforts.                                  
                                                                               
 Number 900                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. JORDAN said the issue of equity is an important one.  In                  
 Juneau, there is complete access to the internet throughout all               
 schools.  The JSD has purchased computer networks and has installed           
 them.  All the library systems have been automated, and computers             
 and software is in the schools.                                               
                                                                               
 MS. JORDAN said schools in Anchorage have not passed the bond                 
 initiative, and their schools reflect that.  Many rural districts             
 do not have that funding avenue.   This is something as a state               
 that we have to figure out how to do statewide.  The North Slope              
 Borough is the other district that has a district-wide network.               
 Sixty-three percent of their budget is funded by the borough.  They           
 are exempt from the local cap laws.  They too have received local             
 funding, but again, other districts do not have access to that kind           
 of money.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 949                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. JORDAN said there are many other efforts HESS Committee members           
 have probably already heard about with the state government and               
 health care and libraries.  There are many avenues for creating a             
 statewide information network.  What is going to happen is that the           
 schools will end up being islands.  Connections will come right up            
 to the door but there will be nothing in the school to connect to.            
 The statewide telecommunications network will be created for all              
 these other entities, but students will not have access to that.              
                                                                               
 MS. JORDAN said coordination is necessary for a smart investment.             
 If money is going to be placed into this program, it does make                
 sense to have a statewide, consolidated, coordinated effort to                
 cover it.  This is an economic issue, and it is a community-                  
 building issue.                                                               
                                                                               
 MS. JORDAN realized that HESS Committee members were reticent to              
 pass a bill that currently does not have any money in it.  However,           
 she would rather see the bill pass without an appropriation than              
 nothing.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1011                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. JORDAN explained there are other federal funds the state could            
 get to put into the program in the future.  There are also matching           
 grants coming from the Department of Commerce and other areas such            
 as private donations.  There are lots of efforts nationwide that              
 are focused on getting technology into the hands of kids in the               
 communities.  A fund and a mechanism needs to be set up for                   
 implementing the program.                                                     
                                                                               
 MS. JORDAN encouraged HESS Committee members to pass the bill to              
 the next committee of referral to begin the process.  The bill has            
 a long road through committees, and in that process the bill can be           
 modified.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1045                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY informed Ms. Jordan that she just spent the morning           
 in Senate Finance, and they will not accept a bill that does not              
 have a fiscal note.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1062                                                                   
                                                                               
 KATHI GILLESPIE, representing the Anchorage School Board, testified           
 via teleconference.  She said parents have been the funding                   
 mechanism for technology for the last years; most likely, they have           
 been the most reliable source of funding for technology.  The PTA             
 has been largely responsible for putting computers in the schools.            
 For a few years, money could be allotted from the operating budget            
 of the ASD, and the PTA could also put some money into that budget.           
 This was on a competitive grant basis.                                        
                                                                               
 MS. GILLESPIE said therefore, some schools got some "seed money" to           
 start their programs.  However, by and large the computers that are           
 in the schools are due to the parents raising the funds to make               
 technology happen.  Ms. Gillespie was not saying that was                     
 inappropriate, and she assured HESS Committee members that parents            
 will continue to help in such a manner.                                       
                                                                               
 Number 1105                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. GILLESPIE continued by saying however, such a system is not               
 equitable and it is very difficult to see the disparity between               
 schools where parents have the capability to raise money to assist            
 technology education and schools where this is not done.  In some             
 schools, many parents will not be able to raise money, and they are           
 not conducting fund raisers in order to get computers in their                
 schools.                                                                      
                                                                               
 MS. GILLESPIE reiterated Ms. Jordan's remarks by saying some                  
 schools are, in fact, islands.  The ASD has not been able to                  
 provide that kind of equitable exchange.  The district and parents            
 are just trying to put the basics into the schools in order for the           
 children to learn how to do word processing.  Then there are also             
 schools that have absolutely nothing.                                         
                                                                               
 MS. GILLESPIE is concerned, as a parent from south Anchorage, about           
 the lack of continued technology education in the upper levels of             
 schooling.  There are elementary parents who are very concerned               
 with putting computers into the schools, so there are a lot of                
 elementary schools which have been able to put in some computers.             
 That all ends in Junior and Senior High.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1155                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. GILLESPIE said it is a shame to see the progress that                     
 elementary children have made drop by the wayside when they reach             
 high school because parents have mostly gone back to work and they            
 are not available to conduct fund raisers for technology.                     
                                                                               
 MS. GILLESPIE said parents are still willing to help, and she                 
 thinks taxpayers would be willing to put up matching money.                   
 However, parents need a fund they can count on from the state.  She           
 knows that money is tight, but it is not going to get any better.             
                                                                               
 MS. GILLESPIE hopes funding can simply be started, perhaps as an              
 endowment for technology.  Then if there was a windfall, that money           
 could be placed into the fund.  Or if people wanted to make sure              
 technology was in the schools and the libraries they could protect            
 the fund a little bit and not have to compete with other items in             
 the operating budget year after year.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1198                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. GILLESPIE's feeling is that technology is very important for              
 Alaska's children, but it is going to be a really tough sell when             
 comparing it to plant size or other considerations when the state             
 must downsize.  She hopes the committee will pass this through, she           
 thinks it is a good idea.  Speaking as a parent who sold a lot of             
 wrapping papers and candy bars during fund raisers, she certainly             
 hopes she can count on the HESS Committee members.                            
                                                                               
 Number 1236                                                                   
                                                                               
 KAREN CRANE, Director of Libraries, Archives and Museums, DOE,                
 testified that the department and DOE Commissioner Halloway support           
 the intent of this bill to extend educational technology and                  
 training for school districts and public libraries.  The                      
 commissioner is particularly supportive of the bill's recognition             
 of the need to initiate the local planning process and to develop             
 partnerships.                                                                 
                                                                               
 MS. CRANE said the DOE has some comments that is hoped will                   
 strengthen the legislation.  The bill requires a considerable                 
 planning effort on the part of school districts and public                    
 libraries.  The grant submittal or the proposal must include a                
 comprehensive plan, a description of the technology to be                     
 purchased, a proposed budget, a description of site preparation,              
 security, technical and maintenance support.                                  
                                                                               
 MS. CRANE said however, the bill does not outline how the proposals           
 will be evaluated and by whom.  It is apparent that some education            
 and technical expertise will be needed to fairly review the grant             
 requests.  The same is true of the library submissions.  Some                 
 library expertise is needed to determine which proposals offer the            
 best long-term investment and plan for service.                               
                                                                               
 Number 1291                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. CRANE said a similar bill introduced last session included the            
 appointment of an educational technology committee to review and              
 approve grant funding.  Committee members were to have demonstrated           
 expertise in education, libraries, telecommunications and                     
 technology.  The DOE believes this mix of experience and expertise            
 is really necessary in order to make the best long-term decisions             
 for the state.                                                                
                                                                               
 MS. CRANE recalled that a number of the speakers referred to a                
 coordinated effort.  The DOE thinks a statewide coordinated effort            
 would be better served with a committee or at least some                      
 designation of the department and the experience levels within the            
 department making these decisions.  The DOE would also suggest that           
 the bill include a provision for pooling district or library funds            
 in order to make bulk purchases of technology or to provide                   
 training.                                                                     
                                                                               
 MS. CRANE said over the long term, the DOE has the potential to               
 save money.  Ms. Crane has some concern with the matching formula             
 as it is applied to libraries.  The department is certainly                   
 supportive of the matching requirement, however there is no                   
 relationship between school district budgets and public library               
 budgets.                                                                      
                                                                               
 MS. CRANE said for example, under the terms of this bill, Anchorage           
 and Fairbanks public libraries, with budgets of $7 million and $2             
 million, respectively, would be required to match at 30 percent.              
 The Pelican Public Library, which has a total annual operating                
 budget of $21,000 would be required to provide a 40 percent match.            
 Skagway Public Library would be required to match at the 50 percent           
 level.  For libraries, the DOE would prefer to see a different kind           
 of match level, preferably based on their total operating budget.             
 There are also a number of other ways this could be determined.               
                                                                               
 Number 1371                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. CRANE said the bill introduced last session also included a               
 provision which allowed the commissioner to waive all or a portion            
 of the required share for an REA or a publicly funded library.  The           
 commissioner certainly supports the matching requirement, but there           
 may be some instances in which the REA or library is unable to                
 provide the share.  In such a case, some provision for a lower or             
 a waived match should be made.                                                
                                                                               
 MS. CRANE said the department certainly agrees with the need to               
 assist schools and libraries in providing educational technology,             
 and the DOE would like to work with the committee to make sure the            
 goals of the bill are realized.                                               
                                                                               
 MS. CRANE also wanted to point out that it was suggested that the             
 State Library's fiscal note would make a good grant application.              
 However, under the terms of the grant it says publicly funded                 
 libraries which meet the terms of AS 14.56.310 for grants are                 
 eligible under that statute.  The State Library manages those                 
 grants.  The State Library would not be eligible under AS                     
 14.56.310.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1418                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said a number of important points have been brought            
 out.  One he shares is a concern for ragged textbooks and the lack            
 of construction paper in the classrooms.  It is hard to imagine               
 that the state would have $10 million a year to go into a                     
 technology fund, as important as technology is.                               
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE was sure the sponsor of the bill would not mind him            
 suggesting that the bill's sponsor would be very interested in the            
 concerns that have been expressed as far as tweaking and                      
 strengthening the bill.  Until there is an appropriations bill and            
 the source of the funds is known, the bill will be held.  Public              
 testimony was closed.                                                         
                                                                               
 HHES - 03/21/95                                                               
 HB 257 - POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION PROGRAMS/LOANS                             
                                                                               
 Number 1474                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said HB 257, Postsecondary Education Programs and              
 Loans, is a bill needed to modify the student loan program to make            
 it more viable.                                                               
                                                                               
 DR. JOE McCORMICK, Executive Director, Alaska Commission on                   
 Postsecondary Education (ACPE), asked HESS Committee members to               
 think of HB 257 in three parts.  Part one contains provisions that            
 have been put into the bill to improve customer service.  Part two            
 are provisions that strengthen financial stability.  Part three               
 contains technical amendments that would improve overall program              
 administration.                                                               
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said improving customer service, or Section 1, raises           
 a long-overdue issue, which is loan limits.  Since 1984, the                  
 University of Alaska alone has raised its tuition 250 percent.  The           
 most recent increase occurred at the last Board of Regents meeting.           
 The loan limits in this program have not been raised since 1981.              
 Section 3 protects borrowers, by requiring more rigid requirements            
 for schools to demonstrate sound financial capabilities before they           
 are allowed to participate in the Alaska Student Loan Program                 
 (ASLP).                                                                       
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said Section 4 sets the borrowing limits for students           
 at a dollar maximum.  Currently the law provides a number of years            
 maximum.  This penalizes part-time students.  These are students              
 who work and go to school, and who typically would take more than             
 five years to get a degree.  However, these people could not get              
 loans beyond the fifth year under the current laws.  Therefore, the           
 ACPE would like to simply convert the maximum the state is willing            
 to allow a student to borrow to a dollar amount and eliminate that            
 problem.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1568                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK continued that Section 6 seeks to extend the terms of           
 repayment from 10 to 15 years.  In Section 12, the ACPE seeks to              
 extend the period before a loan goes into default from 120 days to            
 180 days.  This will allow two more months for a borrower to work             
 with the ACPE in trying to come up with a revised repayment                   
 schedule.  In this way, the borrower can avoid going into default,            
 having his or her credit ruined and all the other ramifications of            
 default.                                                                      
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said Sections 16, 17 and 21 would allow a student to            
 take out a loan at the same time the family borrows on their                  
 behalf.  The brown briefing document given to HESS Committee                  
 members contains a portfolio analysis in the back.  HESS Committee            
 members could find a chart that reflects that about 32 percent of             
 the ACPE portfolio are students who go out of state for their                 
 education.                                                                    
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said many of those students go to colleges that cost            
 in excess of $20,000 a year in tuition.  Under current Alaska law,            
 that student can get an Alaska student loan for $5,500.  If he/she            
 does so, his/her parent cannot also borrow under the family                   
 education loan program.                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 1619                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK explained that these sections would correct that.               
 The parent could then borrow $5,500, and the student could borrow             
 $5,500. In that way, at least they would be half way toward paying            
 the tuition of $20,000.                                                       
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK reiterated the second objective of HB 257:  To                  
 increase the financial soundness of the ASLP.  Section 5 eliminates           
 a drain on the fund from interest-free deferment period.  It has              
 been estimated the ACPE experiences approximately $4 million in               
 lost revenue as a result of this.  Sections 9 and 13 clarify                  
 existing language in the statute that says the state will pay that            
 interest during deferment periods subject to appropriations.                  
                                                                               
 Number 1649                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK stated the state has never paid that subsidy, but it            
 has always been in the law that it has the authority to do that.              
 DR. McCORMICK continued by explaining Section 14 allows the ACPE to           
 raise the origination fee from the current 1 percent up to a 5                
 percent maximum.  This is arranged so if the ACPE charged a 5                 
 percent fee on a $50 million group of loans, that would generate              
 $2.5 million annually that the ACPE could use to offset losses due            
 to death, disability and default.  For example, last year the ACPE            
 paid out over $6.8 million in forgiveness benefits.                           
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said Section 17 would deny loans to incarcerated                
 individuals because of their inability to pay.  There was an                  
 amendment in the bill packet.  The Department of Corrections (DOC)            
 was present to testify as to a clarifying amendment.  The ACPE                
 supports that amendment.  The amendment will avoid complicating a             
 court case in which the DOC is currently involved.                            
                                                                               
 Number 1693                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said Section 19 gives delinquent loans second                   
 priority for wage garnishment behind child support.                           
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK moved onto Objective Three for HB 257:  Improving               
 overall program administration.  In current law, the ACPE must send           
 a certified, registered letter to the borrower prior to his/her               
 going into default.  This is an unnecessary expense.  Section 8               
 eliminates the requirements for a registered letter.  It simply               
 says the borrower "shall be notified by mail" prior to going into             
 default.                                                                      
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said Section 15 reduces the residency requirement               
 from two to one years.  The courts ruled the two-year residency               
 rule unconstitutional.  Therefore, the ACPE was cleaning up the               
 language to reflect that the residency requirement is one year.               
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK explained that Section 20 simply brings the teacher             
 scholarship program in line with the ASLP in terms of all these               
 changes.  Section 24 clarifies an issue.  If, by some reason, a               
 student receives a loan when they are not a student, as has                   
 happened on a rare occasion, that is an illegally obtained loan,              
 and the ACPE can demand payment in-full on that loan and not go               
 through a 10-year repayment plan.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 1750                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said Section 27 contains technical, cleanup language            
 to bring the statute in compliance with other sections of the bill.           
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said HESS Committee members may have seen the article           
 in the previous Sunday's edition of the Juneau Empire that referred           
 to a Division of Legislative Audit report.  Dr. McCormick wanted to           
 speak on that report.  The report says under a given scenario, the            
 loan fund could lose from $40 million to $60 million by the year              
 2011.                                                                         
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said that report, taken in its full context, simply             
 confirms what has been known for some time about the loan program.            
 It is not actuarily sound.  However, legislators must be mindful of           
 the fact that when the loan program was originally created, it was            
 not created to be actuarily sound.  That must be taken into                   
 account.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1783                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK continued that the way the program operates today               
 does not cover all the costs associated with the program.  There is           
 an in-school period in which the ACPE does not charge interest.  At           
 the same time, interest is being paid to the bond holders.  The               
 ACPE does not charge interest during the deferment period.  This              
 bill asks that the ACPE be allowed to do that.                                
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said the ACPE absorbs all losses due to death,                  
 default and forgiveness on the loans.  There is no revenue stream             
 to cover that.  Therefore, the ACPE by and large agrees with the              
 findings of the report, and with the recommendations the report               
 makes.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1810                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK asked HESS Committee members to keep something in               
 mind when they read about the potential for a $60 million loss in             
 that report.  That is a loss after the state of Alaska cashes in an           
 equity of $200 million to $220 million.  That is after all bonds              
 have been paid; all student loans have been retired; all losses to            
 the loan fund from default, death, disability and forgiveness have            
 been accounted for; and then lastly and most important, the state             
 has provided over $900 million to 184,000 Alaskans.  What the state           
 has to show for that is a potential loss of $60 million.                      
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said given all that has been provided over a 30 year            
 period, this is a pretty good program.  It is worth the attention             
 of the legislature.  The ultimate goal of the ACPE is to ensure               
 that this program survives in the future and can be used by future            
 generations of Alaskans.                                                      
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK noted that in order to do that, the ACPE is assuming            
 there would never be any general fund support to the ASLP.                    
 Therefore, the ACPE must move the program toward an actuarily sound           
 operating basis.  That is what this bill does.                                
                                                                               
 Number 1870                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE offered an analogy with the loan as a five gallon              
 bucket with a pinhole in it.  It is dripping, and there is no                 
 danger of going dry but the drip needs to be addressed.                       
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY was very encouraged by Dr. McCormick's talk.  She             
 agreed for the need to make the program sound.  She recalled that             
 Dr. McCormick referred to $6.6 million in forgiveness for death or            
 injury.  She asked if there was any way a small insurance policy              
 could be written on the loans.  She asked if larger lending                   
 institutions have such loan guarantees or insurance policies in the           
 event of death.                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 1897                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said an insurance premium could be purchased.  The              
 problem is that the premiums would be very high.  It would not be             
 realistic.  Dr. McCormick referred HESS Committee members to page             
 20 in their briefing book, regarding the student loan forgiveness             
 volume over time.  The important thing about that chart is to look            
 at the year 1991.  It looks like 1991 was the peak.  That is when             
 the most is paid out.  The figure is going down gradually.                    
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK estimates that the ACPE will pay out not more than              
 $12 million to $16 million more in forgiveness.  The audit report             
 stated that there are only about $150 million left that is even               
 eligible for forgiveness.  Of that $150 million, the ACPE does not            
 estimate more than $12 million or $16 million will actually qualify           
 for forgiveness.  Therefore, actuarily, the amount will continue to           
 decrease.  Dr. McCormick cannot predict, however, when the figure             
 will reach zero.                                                              
                                                                               
 Number 1953                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Dr. McCormick to describe for the               
 committee what happens if a loan under the forgiveness program goes           
 into default.  He asked if that event would accelerate the loan and           
 do away with the forgiveness program.                                         
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said the promissory note signed by borrowers prior to           
 1987 states that if the loan goes into default, the forgiveness               
 provision is lost.  Forgiveness is for loans that are in a current            
 or deferred status.  If the student had applied for forgiveness at            
 that time, it would be granted.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 1984                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if the default provision is strongly            
 enforced.                                                                     
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said currently, it is being strongly enforced.                  
                                                                               
 Number 1991                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE had previously served on the Postsecondary Education           
 Commission.  Co-Chair Bunde directed committee members to page 22,            
 regarding the default rate, in the packet handed out by Dr.                   
 McCormick.  Co-Chair Bunde said it is not coincidental that Dr.               
 McCormick's tenure began in 1993, and the default rate decrease               
 began in 1994.  It was pointed out that the state began this                  
 program when Alaska was never going to run out of money.  It was a            
 giveaway program.                                                             
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE was at the University when people would take out a             
 3 percent student loan to buy their car, and pay for their tuition            
 in cash because the loan program was such a good deal.                        
 Additionally, half of the loan would be forgiven.  It was a                   
 wonderfully generous program, and people often did not take their             
 obligation as borrowers seriously.                                            
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said he has listened to some of the testimony in               
 which people appeal being placed into default.  Some of these                 
 people have loans that were issued as far back as 1977.  Suddenly             
 they are aware they are having problems with their credit rating.             
                                                                               
 Number 2034                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE assured HESS Committee members that those in default           
 are now taking their obligations to repay the state more seriously.           
 He said the bill and the ASLP could be tightened up even more by              
 asking for credit checks and co-signers.  However, that would                 
 really inhibit the number of people who could have access to the              
 loan.                                                                         
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE supports what the ACPE is doing--trying to make the            
 program actuarily sound without unduly limiting access to the                 
 loans.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 2050                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK asked Representative Rokeberg to look on page 21 of             
 the budget briefing document.  The top chart was a student loan               
 repayment volume.  That is something that must be monitored very              
 closely in a loan program.  HESS Committee members could see the              
 actual total dollars collected in 1994, $62.9 million, is on an               
 upwards trend.  That is a rapid trend, not a gradual trend.  That             
 is very encouraging in terms of determining the viability of the              
 program.                                                                      
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK directed the attention of the HESS Committee members            
 to right below that chart, which regarded the Student Loan                    
 Collection Agency recovery chart.  That showed the actual dollar              
 amount in millions that is being collected from students who have,            
 in fact, defaulted.  He asked HESS Committee members to not be                
 misled by the term "default."  This does not mean the student is              
 not paying or will never pay.  It only means that the ACPE has not            
 quite got to him/her yet.  Those the ACPE has contacted are paying            
 at the shown rate.                                                            
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said page 20 shows the one very unique aspect of the            
 ASLP that is different from any other student loan program in the             
 country.  That is the ability to garnish permanent fund dividends             
 (PFDs).  The chart shows, in millions of dollars, the amount                  
 collected each year since 1987 from the PFD.  That is a very viable           
 source of loan repayments from defaulted borrowers.                           
                                                                               
 Number 2115                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if the garnishments were separate               
 from the collection recoveries.                                               
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK answered yes.                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said page 6, Section 14 reminds him of the               
 price of stamps, going up in small increments constantly.  He asked           
 what the sense was in raising costs little by little, and why not             
 simply raise costs less frequently and by larger amounts.                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said the standard student loan is $5,500 for             
 a year, and currently the origination fee is 1 percent.                       
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said therefore, the origination fee on $5,500 is $55.           
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-25, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked from what amount the loan level was             
 being raised.                                                                 
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK answered that the loan levels were being raised from            
 $5,500 to $8,500 for undergraduates attending colleges and                    
 universities that offer degrees.  The graduate amount is being                
 raised from $6,500 to $9,500.                                                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if Dr. McCormick and the Chair were             
 comfortable with that level.  He said that is a major increase.               
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK agreed.  He said he would not be comfortable with               
 that level of borrowing except for the fact that the risen loan               
 levels have been limited only to degree-granting institutions at              
 the college and university level.  Repayment is far greater at                
 those institutions.  More importantly, those students who attend              
 those institutions also qualify for federal aid.  Therefore, the              
 chance they would borrow the maximum amounts are somewhat                     
 diminished.                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said the increases are in-line with current borrowing           
 levels in other federal programs that students have available to              
 them.                                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 106                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Dr. McCormick if he knew what the               
 tuition and costs, excluding room and board, are for the University           
 of Alaska Anchorage or Fairbanks.                                             
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said the school catalogs estimate around $9,500 for             
 9 months for a single student living off-campus.  However, he could           
 be off by about $1,000 a year.  He said that includes room and                
 board.                                                                        
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked if that included the new tuition increase.               
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said the resident undergraduate budget, including               
 tuition fees, room and board, books and supplies, and                         
 transportation for a student living on-campus is $9,100 for 9                 
 months.  For a student living off-campus, the amount is $14,000.              
 That is a considerable difference.  Those figures are for the                 
 University of Alaska Fairbanks (UAF).  The figures for the                    
 University of Alaska Southeast (UAS) is $8,300 for on-campus, and             
 $9,900 for off-campus.                                                        
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said the figures for the University of Alaska                   
 Anchorage (UAA) are $13,000 for 9 months following spring for a               
 full-time student living away from home.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 272                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said he shares the concerns of Representative                  
 Rokeberg.  Students can, conceivably, graduate from college with a            
 $40,000 debt.  Graduating from college now with that large a debt             
 by going to school in the Lower 48 is the price of doing business.            
 However, Co-Chair Bunde hopes there is a very clear message being             
 sent to students that this is a business transaction, not a                   
 giveaway.  Students should only borrow what they absolutely need.             
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Dr. McCormick if the ASLP is able to            
 provide loans for all applicants during the fiscal year.                      
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK answered by saying historically, the program has been           
 able to provide all qualified applicants with a loan.  The program            
 processed and funded all eligible applications.  The ACPE                     
 anticipates another sizeable jump, if this bill passes, in the loan           
 volume for next year.  That would go into the calculations of the             
 ACPE to determine how much additional bond money should be issued             
 in 1995.                                                                      
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said those numbers are being worked on now.  The                
 underwriter and financial advisor of the ACPE are working with the            
 ACPE, making assumptions on the volume of the loans if the bill               
 passes and if it does not pass.                                               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked why there would be a jump.                      
                                                                               
 Number 400                                                                    
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK answered that if the loan amount is increased, that             
 alone will increase the loan volume somewhat.  In addition, the               
 University of Alaska system has grown every year for the last five            
 years.  It has seen an increase in student population.  If                    
 enrollment increases are assumed, along with increases in loan                
 amounts that students can borrow, an increase in the actual lended            
 dollars can be anticipated.                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said the part the ACPE cannot calculate with any                
 degree of certainty is how much that will be.                                 
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said last year, in the continuing attempt to make              
 the loan program more actuarily sound, a bill was passed that                 
 pegged the interest rate to the cost of borrowing money.  This is             
 because in the past the ACPE was charging students 8 percent                  
 interest.  If one factors in 5 years of interest-free money, the              
 state was borrowing money at 6 percent and charging only 4 or 5               
 percent.  Therefore, some progress is being made.                             
                                                                               
 Number 491                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG expressed concern about the cumulative                
 totals a person can borrow.  A person can borrow up to $79,000 in             
 graduate school.  That is a lot of money.  He asked Dr. McCormick             
 to explain again about the "family" provisions of the bill.                   
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK replied under current law, there are two types of               
 loans in the ASLP.  This is in Section 16 of the bill.  An                    
 undergraduate can borrow $5,500.  There is also a provision in the            
 law that the parent of that child can borrow $5,500 under the ASLP            
 rules and regulations.  However, that parent cannot borrow for                
 their child at the same time a child borrows for an ASLP.                     
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said therefore, the current law reads that one or the           
 other has to take out the loan.  HB 257 is advocating being more              
 responsive to parents, students and the higher cost of tuition.               
 Where the total cost of education will justify it, the child and              
 parent can both borrow $5,500 for those families that have children           
 at a high-cost school.  That is what Section 16 does, is allow that           
 to happen.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 649                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the reason there are two different loans is               
 because a parent is a more secured borrower, they are able to                 
 borrow money at a lower interest rate.  The student has a higher              
 interest rate.  Some parents choose to put the loan in their name             
 rather than have the student apply for the loan.  Other young                 
 people are not so closely connected with their family, and have to            
 do it on their own.                                                           
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG wanted to know what happens if a person has           
 two children in college.  He asked how much the parent could then             
 borrow.                                                                       
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said the limit is the cost of attendance.  If the               
 student is going to UAF, and is single and living on-campus, and              
 the cost of attendance certified by the institution is $9,000, if             
 the student borrows $5,500 under the ASLP, this provision would               
 only allow the parent to borrow $3,500 because the loan could not             
 exceed the total cost of attendance.                                          
                                                                               
 Number 709                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if the ASLP was going to loan the               
 entire cost of an education.                                                  
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said the provision would allow for that.                        
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he found that very hard to take.                 
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said this is not a new concept.  When one could                
 attend UAA for $5,500, people were borrowing $5,500.                          
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG wished someone had loaned him all his money           
 to go to school.                                                              
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said it used to be that working through the summer             
 could pay tuition.  It is beyond that point now.                              
                                                                               
 Number 763                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if it would be conceivable under this           
 Section to borrow up to $17,000.  Dr. McCormick answered yes.                 
 Representative Rokeberg also asked about the final gross amount.              
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said there is a gross amount a person cannot exceed             
 in total as an undergraduate.  That is around $42,000.  The gross             
 amount for graduate students is around $47,000.                               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if that was a cap, and Dr. McCormick            
 answered yes.  He said there is no way to get around that cap.                
 Representative Rokeberg said there are two loans, the family loan             
 and the student loan.  He asked how the cap works in that case.  He           
 said it is conceivable that a student could rack up a $160,000                
 loan.                                                                         
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said he would have to get back to Representative                
 Rokeberg on that topic.  He knew the cap applied to the student,              
 but he did not know how it applied to the borrowing parent.                   
                                                                               
 Number 850                                                                    
                                                                               
 GILLIAN HAYES, Executive Assistant to Dr. McCormick, ACPE, asked if           
 Representative Rokeberg was asking if the family education loan               
 also has a dollar cap.  However, the loan is taken out by another             
 person.  It is taken out by the parent or spouse.  That is another            
 issue in which the family education loan limit would go up to                 
 $37,500.                                                                      
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the bottom line was if a student and a family             
 member wanted to borrow the maximum, they could borrow an excess of           
 $70,000.  That would include the student cap plus the family cap.             
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said the student can borrow more if they go           
 to graduate school.                                                           
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said again that he would like to get back to                    
 Representative Rokeberg on those caps.  He is not sure how the cap            
 numbers apply to the payment of the education loan.  He does not              
 know if they are treated separately or if they are treated                    
 inclusively.                                                                  
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK asked Representative Rokeberg to consider something             
 when looking at the caps and what people borrow.  Students are                
 borrowing money on their future earnings to pay the total costs of            
 education.  Based on the way the program will be administered, they           
 are not going to be subsidized at all.  They will pay the total               
 cost of loan interest.                                                        
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK shares the concerns of Representative Rokeberg in               
 some ways.  In other ways, the loans are more of a family decision.           
 They need to decide how much they need to borrow for the                      
 opportunity to attend the institution they have chosen.  This bill            
 provides families with more flexibility to make those kinds of                
 decisions.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 964                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE pointed out that currently the state invests                   
 $160,000 a year in each of its medical students.  That is after a             
 four-year graduate degree.  The sums being spoken of for graduate             
 study are calculated.  It is a judgement that must be made--will he           
 or she make enough money to make it worthwhile.                               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said the state must make that calculated              
 judgement also.                                                               
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said he does not have any discomfort at all, because           
 the students are responsible for the money.  The recovery rate is             
 going very well.                                                              
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked if the parent's loan is backed by any type of           
 collateral.                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said it is not a collateralized loan.  However, it is           
 a loan in which repayment begins within 60 days of the date that              
 the loan originated.  That is a big difference from the student               
 loan.  The student loan repayment will not begin until six months             
 after they have left school.  The borrowing parents, however, must            
 start making payments within 60 days of the date they receive the             
 funds.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1055                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY appreciated the bill, and said she is totally                 
 comfortable with it because the state cannot give enough to educate           
 its children.  She stressed to Representative Rokeberg that the               
 money is a loan.                                                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked about the delinquency rate.                     
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said it is 19 percent.  The rate is decreasing,                 
 however, the current rate is still unacceptable.  The rate must               
 come down.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1093                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said two amendments had been offered.  The first               
 page was called amendment one.  He asked Dr. McCormick if that was            
 different from the second page that concerns people in jail.  Dr.             
 McCormick answered yes.  Co-Chair Bunde said he would like to deal            
 with amendment one first.                                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said that she has a close-out at 4:00 p.m.            
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said if HESS Committee members were speedy, they               
 could finish the meeting by 4:00 p.m.                                         
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY moved the amendment.                                          
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked Dr. McCormick to speak to the amendment.                 
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said the amendment simply changes the words                     
 "guarantee fee" to the correct term of "origination fee."  These              
 loans are not guaranteed by anyone.                                           
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked for questions about and objections to the                
 amendment.  Hearing none, amendment one was adopted.                          
                                                                               
 Number 1176                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE brought up amendment two, and Co-Chair Toohey moved            
 the amendment.  Co-Chair Bunde objected for purposes of discussion.           
                                                                               
 JERRY SHRINER, Special Assistant, Department of Corrections (DOC),            
 said the amendment to Section 17 is important to the DOC because              
 the state of Alaska is party to an agreement called the Cleary Fair           
 Settlement Agreement.  In part, that agreement requires the state,            
 through the DOC, to provide a variety of rehabilitative programs to           
 inmates.  Education is one of these rehabilitative programs.  The             
 good news is that almost none of the inmates have received a loan             
 from ACPE.                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. SHRINER said these loans are not unheard of, but they are                 
 extremely rare.  This language would not require postsecondary                
 education to make any loans to inmates.  It only means that legally           
 and constitutionally inmates have access to the same programs of              
 the state that other individuals have who are not incarcerated.               
 The amendment also provides a level of insurance which is necessary           
 in the sense that if the inmates did not have technical access to             
 the loan program, an inmate could, at some future date, go back               
 into superior court and allege that the state acted in bad faith              
 with respect to the Cleary Fair Settlement Agreement in taking away           
 a right that was available to them at the time the act was entered            
 into.                                                                         
                                                                               
 MR. SHRINER summarized by saying inmates get almost nothing out of            
 the amendment.  The DOC is concerned that it could end up spending            
 a lot of money in legal fees if inmates do not have at least                  
 technical access to the loans.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1290                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said she cannot understand the last part of the               
 amendment.  She also said that the entire bill assumes that people            
 are borrowing on their future earnings.  She asked how someone                
 incarcerated for 30 years will pay off the loan.                              
                                                                               
 MR. SHRINER said the language of the amendment would make it such             
 that an inmate would not be eligible for a loan unless they were to           
 be released within six months of the time the educational program             
 was completed.                                                                
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked if that applies to the six-month grace period            
 for all borrowers.  Dr. McCormick said the ACPE supports the                  
 amendment.                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked if the ACPE was amenable to a small amendment.           
 He said no one is going to get a job the day they get out of jail.            
 He asked if the amendment could be changed to say the inmate's                
 release date is no more than two months after the program is                  
 completed.  That gives the inmates four months to find a job after            
 they are out.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1353                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. McCORMICK said the six months referred to in amendment two is             
 the point in time the inmate is eligible to receive a loan.  An               
 inmate cannot receive a loan until he or she is within six months             
 of a release date.                                                            
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said he had misunderstood the amendment entirely.              
 He read, "a person's scheduled release date is more than six months           
 after the scheduled completion date of the career education or                
 degree program for which the loan was requested."                             
                                                                               
 MR. SHRINER said Co-Chair Bunde was correct, and Dr. McCormick                
 noted he was mistaken.  Mr. Shriner understood the amendment as               
 referring to a person who has four years to serve, and who wants to           
 get into a two-year degree program while in prison.  If he/she                
 wants to have the educational program completed by the time he/she            
 gets out of prison, the person can start borrowing money four years           
 and six months ahead of his/her release date.  If a person has five           
 years left to serve in a sentence, and it takes him/her four years            
 to complete the educational program participating half-time, he/she           
 can start borrowing money four-and-one-half years short to pay the            
 course fees.  That money can be borrowed up until the educational             
 program is completed, which is six months prior to his/her release            
 date.                                                                         
                                                                               
 MR. SHRINER said this addresses the concern of Co-Chair Bunde.  He            
 said the terms should be two months of the release date so the                
 person has four months on the outside to get a job.                           
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said under the current amendment, the person would             
 have to begin making payments the day he or she is released from              
 jail.  That puts the person into default immediately and undermines           
 the program.                                                                  
                                                                               
 MR. SHRINER did not see a problem with the amendment.                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON reminded HESS Committee members that she              
 had to leave the meeting soon.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1437                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said the amount of money an inmate is                    
 borrowing would be less than the average borrower.  The inmate's              
 room and board is paid.                                                       
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE proposed an amendment to amendment two that replaced           
 the words "six months" with "two months."  There was no objection             
 to the amendment to the amendment.  The new intent of amendment two           
 is to provide the ex-inmate with about four months to find a job so           
 repayment can begin.  Co-Chair Bunde removed his objection to                 
 amendment two, and asked if there were further objections.                    
                                                                               
 Number 1500                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG objected to the amendment.  He said he                
 would vote against this amendment because he is a member of the               
 House Budget Subcommittee on Corrections and he has a problem with            
 the Cleary Settlement and the policy being established.                       
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said he shares the concerns, however, the fear of              
 future litigation will keep him from voting against the amendment.            
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken.  Voting "yes" on the amendment was                
 Representatives Davis, Toohey, and Robinson.  Voting "no" were                
 Representatives Rokeberg and Bunde.   The amendment passed.                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY moved HB 257 as amended be passed from the HESS               
 Committee with individual recommendations and accompanying fiscal             
 notes.                                                                        
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG objected.  He said he is concerned about              
 the amount of money that can be borrowed, and the family loans.  He           
 is concerned about how those amounts can affect the actuary health            
 of the ASLP.                                                                  
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE noted his concern, and said people are not required            
 to take the loans.  Some people make bad judgments, however.                  
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken.  Voting "no" was Representative                   
 Rokeberg.  Voting "yes" were Representatives Toohey, Bunde,                   
 Robinson, and Davis.  HB 257 passed from the HESS Committee.                  
                                                                               
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE adjourned the meeting at 4:08 p.m.                             
                                                                               
                                                                               

Document Name Date/Time Subjects